Efficient Transportation
Dec 17th, 2008 by Leo
So according to Google Maps, my wife’s commute to work is only 4.2 miles:
- By subway this costs $2 and usually takes around 45 minutes during rush hour.
- By cab this costs around $16 (at night) but it takes around 20-30 minutes.
- I suppose if I were to drive gas guzzler that gets 12 miles a gallon, this commute would use 1/3 gallons, around $0.70 right now (my Corolla get around 35 mpg, so it costs around 30 cents of gas).
- On a scooter the commute takes less than 15 minutes (in good weather with lots of rush hour traffic) and costs around 10 cents worth of gas…(assuming gas is a little over $2 a gallon)
If public transportation is the most efficient, then why does it cost so darn much? Even if I add in the cost of buying the scooter (and the insurance) over 4 years, it brings the one way cost of the commute up to $1.10. Whereas the subway is going to go up to $2.50 and still relies on additional taxes and tolls in order to maintain it’s multi-billion dollar deficit. I used to think it was because not enough people took public transportation, but the subway and bus system in NY has maxed out in the past several years and is running at capacity.
I’m not complaining, I’m really wondering why we’re not seeing the economies of scale that one would expect to find in mass transportation.
The cheapest, the funnest (I know it’s not a word), the most scalable, and the fastest way to get around a crowded city has got to be scooters and motorcycles (smaller motorcycles anyway). European cities know this, Asian cities know this, and you knew this. So why don’t U.S. cities want to encourage two wheeled vehicles?
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We’re getting there culturally. I see more and more bikes everyday on the west coast. In fact, my friends and I have joked that it looks more and more like those Asian and European cities you mentioned. Why don’t cities encourage them? I am curious by what you mean. I don’t think any cities are actively discouraging them. I know in SF we are getting more MC parking, the MC meters are really cheap (10 cents an hour), and most but not all of the meter maids ignore bikes for hourly parking. I suppose cities could actively promote them, but to what end? I think the market will take care of that if your number crunching is on the mark. I am getting the impression we are in the midst of a huge surge in motorcycling, and I bet things will be more accommodating in the near future.
That’s part of what makes SF so great… Not only is lane splitting legal in CA (whereas in NY you can get ticketed for lane splitting between stopped cars…getting to the front of a red light – happened to me 2 weeks ago), but there’s also designated motorcycle parking (in NY none of the city parking lots technically allow motorcycles)…
The Department of Transportation’s position for NY is: “scooters aren’t as clean as mass transit. The primary mode shift we’re looking for is from vehicles to transit. That’s why we’re focusing our efforts on things like Bus Rapid Transit, bike lanes, and pedestrian improvements.”
So hopefully SF can lead the way…and show the other cities how it can be done.
As a motorcycle and scooter rider (and occasional bicycle commuter), I’m obviously of like mind when it comes to preferring 2 wheels over 4 when it comes to a commute. However, I have to admit that taking the big picture into account, mass transit is the best solution for the MASSES.
Mass transit riders don’t need special licensing, insurance or extra space for their mode of transport. It’s always there (strikes and major disasters aside), arguably “safer” statistically and if we’re talking specifically about light rail, pollutes less overall in the cities they service.
The true distinction isn’t between buses vs. cars, or trains vs. bikes, but rather mass transportation vs. PERSONAL transportation. Personal transportation affords certain advantages over mass transportation but not without financial burdens and safety risks not usually included when taking a bus or train. So if the choice comes down to mass vs. personal transportation in terms of city-wide “efficiency”, mass transit wins with regards to addressing the needs of a larger group of people. I’d rather have crowded trains than the smokey crowds of scooters and bikes you’ll find in India and S.E. Asia if I was forced to choose.
In terms of choosing a car vs. bike for personal transportation, the choice is obvious, but that’s a solution limited to people who first need to an “extra” skill set and are willing to take a little financial, comfort and safety risk. This goes for all bikes, motor or leg-powered.
What it really comes down to is commuters asking themselves what they really NEED to get from point ‘A’ to point ‘B’ balanced with how they WANT to fulfill that need. I’ll be the first to admit that my commute into the office this morning via motorcycle averaging 60-70 mph on the freeway in atypically cold weather (low 40s) in my part of Los Angeles made me miss the heater in my car; even just that little bit.
“Mass transit riders don’t need special licensing, insurance or extra space for their mode of transport. It’s always there (strikes and major disasters aside), arguably “safer” statistically and if we’re talking specifically about light rail, pollutes less overall in the cities they service.”
That is a really good point.
True true. And too many good points to highlight.
I like mass transit here in NY (especially when I lived and never had to leave Manhattan), but if it had to be either “mass” or “personal” transportation then a city planner would have to choose “personal” for the same reason so many Asian and European cities have… Because it’s scalable (doesn’t require billions of dollars to get started like the subways do) and because it can do something mass transit can’t: go everywhere.
I thought the buses and subways went everywhere until my work took me out of Manhattan. The outer edges of the subway and bus lines border ridiculous commuting times: when I went to high school in the Bronx where I grew up, it was a 5-10 minute car ride, but a 45-60 minute bus ride. It was also 2 hours to Queens by subway, even though it was a half hour drive in normal traffic by car…less than 10 miles. And many of these stop running or run hourly after 11pm…
Anyway, all that’s to say I’m glad we have BOTH… But it would be nice of cities recognized the benefit (to everyone) when people choose two wheels, by making it easier to park and commute safely.
Leo: “Anyway, all that’s to say I’m glad we have BOTH… But it would be nice of cities recognized the benefit (to everyone) when people choose two wheels, by making it easier to park and commute safely.”
And that’s the advantage folks like you in Manhattan, Paris and Tokyo have with good local mass transit. Arguably, SF and London have pretty good systems too, but having been to all the places I’ve mentioned, I give the first three higher marks (MUNI in SF is just okay, BART is expensive, and London, sheesh, it’s CHEAPER to operate a scooter or motorcycle than it is to just take the train, tube or bus).
Speaking for myself and my area, Los Angeles has decent mass transit and is a relative bargain at that, but the network is shit. I’d kill for the network in Manhattan or SF. It’s getting better here, but it’ll never catch up with our traffic congestion. So, I guess I’ll stick to bikes.
After visiting LA by Car (second trip over summer – smart!) and by mass transit in the winter, I have to admit the two cities are similar in size and that mass transit doesn’t do a good job of covering gaps in the outer edges but LA’ers have this I’m not broke so I’ll drive attitude a lot of NYer’s don’t understand. For one, unless you truly understand the original post about how long it takes to go such a short distance and much cheaper by car in NY you can’t pass judgement. In LA I wanted to be my friend’s “ride” as I had rented a car and he worked in Santa Monica from little Tokyo. That was a joke. In NY (midtown to Bayside, for example) it would have saved time, given the right back streets.
More to the point is the parking issue. Parking is available in all forms in LA. All over I saw lots with rates. In Manhattan same goes but at ridiculous rates! And why is it so futile to park a scoot/bike? Park your bike at the meter and two other cars may park as well. So why should we pay the meter? the car who then gets our spot is free-loading. Also in LA, SF the weather is moto-permitting. Right now there’s about a foot or so of snow and ice and craziness out here. I know all week us 2-wheelers are going to either cage it or ride mass transit.
There’s something fundamentally wrong with the system in NY. And it’s about time it’s addressed.
Hi guys,
Hopefully someone will notice me commenting on the old thread and can give me some advice WRT the practicality of using a motorcycle as a real form of transport for a commute/vehicle in NYC!!!
Do any of you use a motorcycle as your primary mode of transport to & from work? Is it a practical way to get between boroughs (so I guess am talking a motorcycle here, not a vespa!)
Like Lex said “Right now there’s about a foot or so of snow and ice and craziness out here. I know all week us 2-wheelers are going to either cage it or ride mass transit.” Does that mean that commuting is not really possible in the winter at all (obviously when it snows/rains biking is not an option so I would have to take trains etc).
Right now I live in Queens and I am going to medical school by Train/Bus every day. It takes me 1.25 – 1.5 hours each way on a good day and I am losing my mind! I would love to drive but car insurance plus the crazy tolls on cars Queens -> Bronx bridges would be too costly to do for the next 4 years (it would be $10 a day in tolls alone, and that’s before the MTA raises the rates). The insurance and tolls on bikes are less than 1/2. Plus if I ever visit manhattan (or move there) I would never be able to park! (Plus I would love to have a bike!!!)
My questions are:
1) Can a bike be a real form of transport in NYC, or do the weather, cold, traffic and parking issues make it purely a warm weather hobby?
2) If you use your bike to commute every day where do you park it, and how is it secured so people dont steal it while you sleep!
Thanks for any advice you can offer! I am 1/2 seriously considering a bike, but then sometimes I think it is a totally stupid idea.
Cheers!
-larry
Hey Larry – I can expand on this later when I have more time – but just quickly (1) I’ve been riding every day these past two weeks except for last Wed and Thurs…
(2) A scooter is fine for getting from borough to borough, so you don’t HAVE-to rule it out. The bigger ones are fine for short city highway commutes..but top speed is usually around 70… Not fast enough for the LIE further out on the island.
(3) There’s a steep learning curve, so if you started riding now, you probably wouldn’t be able to commute reliably for a while. Which means you’d still be taking the train a lot of the time for the next couple of years…
(4) It’s also expensive to get started…buying gear, taking the classes, buying and maintaining a bike – and the learning curve associated with that… But after the first couple of years, it’s actually pretty cheap.
So not a totally stupid idea, but it won’t pay off very quickly. Do you go to Downstate? I think I still know a couple of guys who go there and ride…
Thanks for the feedback Leo!
Oh I see I didn’t mention what borough I got to school at!! I am going to school at Albert Einstein in the Bronx and I really like living in Queens, so I would be crossing the Bronx Whitestone or triboro or something every day. You don’t feel like you are going to be blown off the road riding a scooter on the highway?
I figured that a bike would definitely not be a silver bullet vs. buying a car, and there are definitely a ton of reasons why a car is more practical, but I really like the idea of riding a bike to kind of open up the city more to explore (esp in the better weather), while still having public transport as a primary mode of trans. Problem is owning a car in NYC is so costly already, and with me having to cross toll roads every day (Queens -> Bx) it just pushes the price real high (as you know bikes pay alot less).
I actually love public transport, and I take it every single day already right now so if I still have to take it alot (esp in winter) it would still be an improvement. The problem right now is that it takes too long to get to the Bronx. It is taking me sometimes 1.5 hours each way to get from home to school and back, when the drive is only 25 mins (though I realize it would be much longer in the morning rush hour!
Do you find that the trouble trying to park your bike securely negates any convenience factor of being able to park it in smaller spots? I do not have a garage so I would have to try to lock it up every night…
Hey Larry,
Parking can be a pain (especially all-day parking), but once you get to know your neighborhoods (parking wise) you’ll find regular spots… So it’s nothing like finding a spot for a car. If I’m going someplace new in Manhattan, I’ll give myself an extra ten minutes to look for good parking (ie a spot where it won’t get knocked over). In Queens and the Bronx, if you talk to people you might find a regular place to park (behind a building, or next to a house) where you can pay a few bucks a month a not have to worry about it.
But I think the 2 issues for your motorcycle happiness will be: (1) it takes a long time to ride safely (on 87 and 95), consistently, so it might take up more of your time in the beginning even though it will make your commute faster. (2) although motorcycling is pretty cheap in the long run, it will seem expensive in the beginning as you buy gear, tools, warmer clothing, incidental things like locks and bags, etc. But after a couple of years of regular riding, I think it will be everything you hope for and more.