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	<title>Comments on: Riding Tips: braking &#8220;backwards&#8221;</title>
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		<title>By: CityBiker1</title>
		<link>http://www.citybikerblog.com/2010/05/riding-tips-braking-backwards/comment-page-1/#comment-2893</link>
		<dc:creator>CityBiker1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Jan 2011 20:38:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citybikerblog.com/?p=1498#comment-2893</guid>
		<description>Hey Barney, thanks for your 2 cents!

I guess it comes down to is - if you were going to spend 3 seconds  braking (for instance): is it better to scrub the speed off earlier while braking, or later?

Abe is saying it&#039;s better to do harder braking LATER by braking gradually: so 1 (light braking), 2 (slightly harder braking), 3 (max braking).  The reason is that you don&#039;t want to lock the wheels by braking too suddenly.

I&#039;m saying it&#039;s better to scrub off as much speed EARLIER: 1 (hard braking), 2 (same), 3 (ease off the brakes).  Because it decreases the overall stopping distance and leaves more options towards the end of the braking distance.

I guess each rider has to determine which makes more sense.

Is there a danger of locking the brakes if done improperly?  Yes.  Either at 1, or at 3 - you don&#039;t want to lock the front wheel at either point.    

Won&#039;t that knock helmets (with a pillion) on the streets?  Well if you&#039;d knock helmets at 1, braking early, then you&#039;d knock helmets at 3 braking harder later.  But usually you don&#039;t knock helmets because you don&#039;t plan to decelerate that quickly with a passenger...

So... doing it the early braking way on the track - even while braking into a corner, one would gradually ease OFF the brakes up to apex (rather than squeezing more up to the apex)... Although I&#039;d ease off the brakes while leaning it over myself - I don&#039;t have the mojo to brake consistently while fully leaned over.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Barney, thanks for your 2 cents!</p>
<p>I guess it comes down to is &#8211; if you were going to spend 3 seconds  braking (for instance): is it better to scrub the speed off earlier while braking, or later?</p>
<p>Abe is saying it&#8217;s better to do harder braking LATER by braking gradually: so 1 (light braking), 2 (slightly harder braking), 3 (max braking).  The reason is that you don&#8217;t want to lock the wheels by braking too suddenly.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m saying it&#8217;s better to scrub off as much speed EARLIER: 1 (hard braking), 2 (same), 3 (ease off the brakes).  Because it decreases the overall stopping distance and leaves more options towards the end of the braking distance.</p>
<p>I guess each rider has to determine which makes more sense.</p>
<p>Is there a danger of locking the brakes if done improperly?  Yes.  Either at 1, or at 3 &#8211; you don&#8217;t want to lock the front wheel at either point.    </p>
<p>Won&#8217;t that knock helmets (with a pillion) on the streets?  Well if you&#8217;d knock helmets at 1, braking early, then you&#8217;d knock helmets at 3 braking harder later.  But usually you don&#8217;t knock helmets because you don&#8217;t plan to decelerate that quickly with a passenger&#8230;</p>
<p>So&#8230; doing it the early braking way on the track &#8211; even while braking into a corner, one would gradually ease OFF the brakes up to apex (rather than squeezing more up to the apex)&#8230; Although I&#8217;d ease off the brakes while leaning it over myself &#8211; I don&#8217;t have the mojo to brake consistently while fully leaned over.</p>
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		<title>By: barney</title>
		<link>http://www.citybikerblog.com/2010/05/riding-tips-braking-backwards/comment-page-1/#comment-2892</link>
		<dc:creator>barney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Jan 2011 18:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citybikerblog.com/?p=1498#comment-2892</guid>
		<description>I think I know where you are both going. The initial squeeze and weight transfer is imperative.  It&#039;s funny as i was initially always braking hard first and letting off the brake gradually, but since I have been on the track that method is sloowwww. It&#039;s a light pull and gradual squeeze right up the apex, even leaned over! Then a gradual (there&#039;s that word again) roll on the throttle.  All these techniques should be practiced and put in your &quot;toolbox&quot;.

Having said all that, the new ABS systems will allow for a real grab-a-pile-of-brake panic stop and is a &quot;must&quot; for street bikes. But that takes practice as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I know where you are both going. The initial squeeze and weight transfer is imperative.  It&#8217;s funny as i was initially always braking hard first and letting off the brake gradually, but since I have been on the track that method is sloowwww. It&#8217;s a light pull and gradual squeeze right up the apex, even leaned over! Then a gradual (there&#8217;s that word again) roll on the throttle.  All these techniques should be practiced and put in your &#8220;toolbox&#8221;.</p>
<p>Having said all that, the new ABS systems will allow for a real grab-a-pile-of-brake panic stop and is a &#8220;must&#8221; for street bikes. But that takes practice as well.</p>
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		<title>By: abe</title>
		<link>http://www.citybikerblog.com/2010/05/riding-tips-braking-backwards/comment-page-1/#comment-2206</link>
		<dc:creator>abe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jun 2010 02:28:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citybikerblog.com/?p=1498#comment-2206</guid>
		<description>&gt;by using *even* braking throughout the stop 

But, by doing this you are actually training yourself to do the wrong thing in an emergency. You can&#039;t do one thing most of the time and then expect to do something else under stress... the training is the only way to overcome your survival reaction, and if you inadvertently trained yourself to do the wrong thing, that&#039;s what you&#039;ll do when you desperately need to do the right thing - which is ease into the brake for a split second, feel the pressure compress the forks and get the tire to bite down, then increase lever pressure as weight transfers.

&gt;(which is brake too lightly in the first few seconds, and too much in the last seconds before a stop).

I guess I don&#039;t really get this... I don&#039;t remember if I did this when I started riding, and maybe from years of carrying passengers where it&#039;s always a challenge to keep things smooth to keep  from clacking helmets, but I tended to modulate braking at the end of the stopping to stop smoothly and stay in balance.

Maybe I&#039;m just not understanding your description, and maybe you just mean it as an exercise to be used once in a while. In any case, it&#039;s good advice to pay attention to how you are braking and learn variations and subtleties about how you brakes and tires work to scrub off speed.

One thing is crucial; Learn to stop in as short a distance as possible. And practice it over and over.

cheers,

-abe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt;by using *even* braking throughout the stop </p>
<p>But, by doing this you are actually training yourself to do the wrong thing in an emergency. You can&#8217;t do one thing most of the time and then expect to do something else under stress&#8230; the training is the only way to overcome your survival reaction, and if you inadvertently trained yourself to do the wrong thing, that&#8217;s what you&#8217;ll do when you desperately need to do the right thing &#8211; which is ease into the brake for a split second, feel the pressure compress the forks and get the tire to bite down, then increase lever pressure as weight transfers.</p>
<p>&gt;(which is brake too lightly in the first few seconds, and too much in the last seconds before a stop).</p>
<p>I guess I don&#8217;t really get this&#8230; I don&#8217;t remember if I did this when I started riding, and maybe from years of carrying passengers where it&#8217;s always a challenge to keep things smooth to keep  from clacking helmets, but I tended to modulate braking at the end of the stopping to stop smoothly and stay in balance.</p>
<p>Maybe I&#8217;m just not understanding your description, and maybe you just mean it as an exercise to be used once in a while. In any case, it&#8217;s good advice to pay attention to how you are braking and learn variations and subtleties about how you brakes and tires work to scrub off speed.</p>
<p>One thing is crucial; Learn to stop in as short a distance as possible. And practice it over and over.</p>
<p>cheers,</p>
<p>-abe</p>
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		<title>By: Leo</title>
		<link>http://www.citybikerblog.com/2010/05/riding-tips-braking-backwards/comment-page-1/#comment-2175</link>
		<dc:creator>Leo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 21:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citybikerblog.com/?p=1498#comment-2175</guid>
		<description>Hi Abe,

Thanks for your comment!

I actually don&#039;t recommend people just giving the front brake a good solid squeeze every time they get to a stop...  I agree it takes time to learn get control over the front brake lever - and learning to brake at the threshold requires good lever control.  

What I&#039;m proposing is to help develop that lever control and a feel for braking when it&#039;s not an emergency situation - by using *even* braking throughout the stop - as opposed to what we naturally tend to do (which is brake too lightly in the first few seconds, and too much in the last seconds before a stop).

I think people usually panic (and lock the wheel) under braking not at the moment they start braking - but as they get closer to hitting something.  If one were to get more of the braking done earlier, with good lever control and a constant level of braking that fits the distance and traction, there&#039;s less need to panic.

Anyway - kudos on your mad skillz!  And for continuing to practice and get training - that&#039;s what all the rest of us need!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Abe,</p>
<p>Thanks for your comment!</p>
<p>I actually don&#8217;t recommend people just giving the front brake a good solid squeeze every time they get to a stop&#8230;  I agree it takes time to learn get control over the front brake lever &#8211; and learning to brake at the threshold requires good lever control.  </p>
<p>What I&#8217;m proposing is to help develop that lever control and a feel for braking when it&#8217;s not an emergency situation &#8211; by using *even* braking throughout the stop &#8211; as opposed to what we naturally tend to do (which is brake too lightly in the first few seconds, and too much in the last seconds before a stop).</p>
<p>I think people usually panic (and lock the wheel) under braking not at the moment they start braking &#8211; but as they get closer to hitting something.  If one were to get more of the braking done earlier, with good lever control and a constant level of braking that fits the distance and traction, there&#8217;s less need to panic.</p>
<p>Anyway &#8211; kudos on your mad skillz!  And for continuing to practice and get training &#8211; that&#8217;s what all the rest of us need!</p>
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		<title>By: abe</title>
		<link>http://www.citybikerblog.com/2010/05/riding-tips-braking-backwards/comment-page-1/#comment-2173</link>
		<dc:creator>abe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 May 2010 20:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citybikerblog.com/?p=1498#comment-2173</guid>
		<description>Hey Leo,

I read your blog often and agree with most of your tips, but I think this this one is a bad idea. There&#039;s a very good reason to start braking lightly and then increase pressure! It takes a split second from initiating braking until weight transfers to the front wheel, and until the weight gets onto the wheel the traction for hard braking just isn&#039;t available. A good solid squeeze on the front brake might be fine under controlled conditions, but let a jolt of panic into the system and guaranteed you will squeeze harder than you intend and then locking the front wheel becomes far more likely if this is the method you have trained yourself to use. Front end slides are very difficult to recover from under the best conditions, let alone in an emergency when you need every inch for stopping. The reflex you need to get trained in for a panic stop is not one solid &quot;grab,&quot; it&#039;s more &quot;squeeze - wait a beat - squeeze increasingly harder.&quot;  By ramping the squeeze up you end up being able to squeeze much harder at the end and put much more braking force into the ground. I started riding in the late 80s, nobody taught me anything other than the location of the brake, throttle, and clutch. My worst crash was a front brake mistake - too much, too soon, and I was down before I knew it. I didn&#039;t know how to get the rear wheel off the ground... whenever I tried to stoppie I would just slide the front wheel, no matter how brave I got by increasing speed or squeezing harder. Then, after about 20 years of riding,  I finally took some classes - Lee Parks Total Control, Sportbike Track Time novice class - and I learned how to brake properly. I do braking drills in a parking lot at least twice a season. My stopping distances have dropped dramatically, I can now hoist a stoppie at will, I can brake to the limit in the rain, and I&#039;m totally comfortable hauling a superbike down from 150 miles per hour with the back wheel just skimming the pavement. More importantly, I&#039;m relaxed the whole time, and I&#039;m in control of how much pressure I modulate into the system. I can watch the pavement in an emergency and decrease pressure if the road gets patchy or the front is about to slide, or let off the brake entirely to swerve, then bring it back on again smoothly and keep shedding speed.
You say braking is hard to improve, but it&#039;s like every other aspect of riding a motorcycle. First you need to learn the proper technique, then you need to do drills until it becomes muscle memory, then you need to practice, practice, practice.  Braking and throttle are two areas that hold so much room for control, finesse, and smoothness and pay off huge dividends in safety (and speed if we&#039;re talking track time) when they are done right.

Thanks for a cool blog!

-abe</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Leo,</p>
<p>I read your blog often and agree with most of your tips, but I think this this one is a bad idea. There&#8217;s a very good reason to start braking lightly and then increase pressure! It takes a split second from initiating braking until weight transfers to the front wheel, and until the weight gets onto the wheel the traction for hard braking just isn&#8217;t available. A good solid squeeze on the front brake might be fine under controlled conditions, but let a jolt of panic into the system and guaranteed you will squeeze harder than you intend and then locking the front wheel becomes far more likely if this is the method you have trained yourself to use. Front end slides are very difficult to recover from under the best conditions, let alone in an emergency when you need every inch for stopping. The reflex you need to get trained in for a panic stop is not one solid &#8220;grab,&#8221; it&#8217;s more &#8220;squeeze &#8211; wait a beat &#8211; squeeze increasingly harder.&#8221;  By ramping the squeeze up you end up being able to squeeze much harder at the end and put much more braking force into the ground. I started riding in the late 80s, nobody taught me anything other than the location of the brake, throttle, and clutch. My worst crash was a front brake mistake &#8211; too much, too soon, and I was down before I knew it. I didn&#8217;t know how to get the rear wheel off the ground&#8230; whenever I tried to stoppie I would just slide the front wheel, no matter how brave I got by increasing speed or squeezing harder. Then, after about 20 years of riding,  I finally took some classes &#8211; Lee Parks Total Control, Sportbike Track Time novice class &#8211; and I learned how to brake properly. I do braking drills in a parking lot at least twice a season. My stopping distances have dropped dramatically, I can now hoist a stoppie at will, I can brake to the limit in the rain, and I&#8217;m totally comfortable hauling a superbike down from 150 miles per hour with the back wheel just skimming the pavement. More importantly, I&#8217;m relaxed the whole time, and I&#8217;m in control of how much pressure I modulate into the system. I can watch the pavement in an emergency and decrease pressure if the road gets patchy or the front is about to slide, or let off the brake entirely to swerve, then bring it back on again smoothly and keep shedding speed.<br />
You say braking is hard to improve, but it&#8217;s like every other aspect of riding a motorcycle. First you need to learn the proper technique, then you need to do drills until it becomes muscle memory, then you need to practice, practice, practice.  Braking and throttle are two areas that hold so much room for control, finesse, and smoothness and pay off huge dividends in safety (and speed if we&#8217;re talking track time) when they are done right.</p>
<p>Thanks for a cool blog!</p>
<p>-abe</p>
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		<title>By: Leo</title>
		<link>http://www.citybikerblog.com/2010/05/riding-tips-braking-backwards/comment-page-1/#comment-2148</link>
		<dc:creator>Leo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 22:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citybikerblog.com/?p=1498#comment-2148</guid>
		<description>Thanks Peter!

It gets me psyched when I hear people consciously work on riding skills - not just for safety reasons - for me the challenge of improving my technique is a big part of what makes riding fun...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Peter!</p>
<p>It gets me psyched when I hear people consciously work on riding skills &#8211; not just for safety reasons &#8211; for me the challenge of improving my technique is a big part of what makes riding fun&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.citybikerblog.com/2010/05/riding-tips-braking-backwards/comment-page-1/#comment-2147</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 May 2010 21:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.citybikerblog.com/?p=1498#comment-2147</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d driven for nearly 30 years, that is, up I moved to the city last summer. Sold the car and bought a bike, but after reading your article, I realized I need to practice reverse breaking. What a great tip and even better website.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d driven for nearly 30 years, that is, up I moved to the city last summer. Sold the car and bought a bike, but after reading your article, I realized I need to practice reverse breaking. What a great tip and even better website.</p>
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